查看完整版本: 政府说要跟达赖谈判，大家怎么看？问题看起来很关键。

政府说要跟达赖谈判，大家怎么看？问题看起来很关键。

政府说要跟达赖谈判已有好几天了，不知道大家注意到这个问题没有。大家怎么看？

有人说此举英明，在全世界华人行动起来、法国总统做致歉姿态之后主动退一步，让对手不好接招，同时还可控制引导国内外爱国运动，分化达赖和激进的藏独分子。

也有人说此举是昏招，在爱国运动蓬勃发展，但打击反华势力还未取得任何实质性进展的时候就主动妥协，只会让自己人乱了阵脚，自毁长城，并招致敌人更疯狂的进攻。最近西方各大媒体继续大肆进行歪曲性报道（诽谤华人游行使用暴力，曲解中国与达赖谈判是承认了自己的错误等等）就是明证。照此形势发展下去，中国政府很可能会继续妥协，甚至为了换取西方对北京奥运会的支持而牺牲在西藏问题上的一些原则立场，为西藏问题国际化打开方便之门。西方在鼓捣藏独问题的时候打奥运牌，目的就是以奥运作要挟，换取中国在西藏问题上的让步。纽约集会的主题在这个时候由反藏独、反西方主流媒体变为支持奥运，同样是很不明智之举，等于从民间发出声音支持政府力保奥运，是为了短期的政绩工程耽误了长期国家利益的大局。

这种时候抛出这样一个姿态，我也觉得很困惑呀。。
有人说党妈在下一盘大棋，偶们也许一时还看不明白，娃哈哈::liudahan 。

NY集会那个theme我确实不太理解。。 不牵扯CNN，不牵扯ZD，只一个no politics in olympics的口号，搞得好像我们理亏了一样！::numa

I think it sucks, big time.<br><br>I don't know how it affects other folks, for me I was planning to the 5.4. rally in NYC, but now I am not any more. <br><br>Western media never gave a shit to any of the Chinese rally/parade, and now our own government is negotiating with Dalai. So what we are going to do is nothing better than masturbation, sure it feels good but it's your own game.<br><br>life sucks!<br><br><br>[quote]原帖由 <i>LaoPeng</i> 于 2008-5-1 10:37 AM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132140&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
政府说要跟达赖谈判已有好几天了，不知道大家注意到这个问题没有。大家怎么看？

有人说此举英明，在全世界华人行动起来、法国总统做致歉姿态之后主动退一步，让对手不好接招，同时还可控制引导国内外爱国运动，分 ... [/quote]

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<P>打击不打击反华势力抗议是效果基本没有的...... 每个在美国的中国人去说服一个老外，顶不上CNN找个8点档放一部伪造宣传片。真正的抗议，都在桌面以下。萨科齐他们为什么服软，肯派特使啊什么的去中国，还不是因为中国强大了，手里有粮，心中不慌。而法国现在这么搞，以后要惨了。不说多的，交货的时候多审查几道，发点负面消息，导致全球对空客飞机质量的恐慌，空客股票跌个百分之几十是很正常的。</P>
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<P>如果这次达赖接受招安，这才是真的一个大耳光。现在谈判很有几条可以谈的，第一中国有钱有地，达赖如果回归，给国家副主席等荣誉，每年100万美金，金钱美女名誉崇拜等等。第二他就要死了，价值就快没了，美国很可能要在他死之前干掉他，搞悲情，他死无葬身之地。所以西方是绝对不会允许达赖直接去北京的，现在只允许他派代表，也就是CIA的人去和中国政府谈。所以这个谈判不谈判，是hope for the best，最起码也要把藏青会和达赖离间，制造出达赖欢迎，藏青会要被当作恐怖分子打的局面，不能像196x年那样让达赖当游击队精神领袖。中国都是搞阳谋，这个比栽赃陷害的阴谋狠多了。当然这个敌人也会有对策，那就来玩呗。</P>
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<P>我们抗议，我们游行，是一种自我表达，一种团结的形势。在美国我们的日子会好过许多。让美国人知道，中国留学生也是会游行集会的，也是会用你们的规则玩儿你们的游戏的。NBA自从姚明去了，奥尼尔首发过没？只好灰溜溜去热火。中国人团结起来的力量，西方这些崇尚个人主义的国家没法想象，只能惊叹。</P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>LaoPeng</I> 于 2008-5-1 10:37 AM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132140&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> 政府说要跟达赖谈判已有好几天了，不知道大家注意到这个问题没有。大家怎么看？ 有人说此举英明，在全世界华人行动起来、法国总统做致歉姿态之后主动退一步，让对手不好接招，同时还可控制引导国内外爱国运动，分 ... [/quote]</P>

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<P>your attitude perfectly explains why Chinese people can not stand without CCP. :)</P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>zuri</I> 于 2008-5-1 02:22 PM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132160&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> I think it sucks, big time.I don't know how it affects other folks, for me I was planning to the 5.4. rally in NYC, but now I am not any more. Western media never gave a shit to any of the Chinese ral ... [/quote]</P>

Don't need to be that angry. The chinese goverment has been talking with Dalai for 6 times since 2000. We also setup 3 preconditions for Dalai to talk, and futhermore it is the bureau of religious administration to talk to Dalai.

It is just the way the Western Media distort the news. I personnally don't think Dalai will accept the 3 preconditions.

我不觉得谈判有什么好丢脸的
本来就是一个last call
同意imac的看法，能争取达赖是最大的胜利

Exactly. If Dalai can accept those preconditions and come back. That is great. We are all set.

If he refuses the preconditions and doesn't come back, we don't lose anything. Everything just continues as before unless Dalai becomes older and older.

"手里有粮,心中不慌"<img smilieid="60" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/smilies/default/bao29.gif" border="0"><br><br>[quote]原帖由 <i>imac</i> 于 2008-5-1 02:33 PM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132161&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
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打击不打击反华势力抗议是效果基本没有的...... 每个在美国的中国人去说服一个老外，顶不上CNN找个8点档放一部伪造宣传片。真正的抗议，都在桌面以下。萨科齐他们为什么服软，肯派特使啊什么的去中国，还不是 ... [/quote]

among my relatives, lots of them were persecuted by CCP and four of them died.<br><br>in 1950's CCP took away my maturnal grandfather's clinic and my paternal grandfather's three factories.<br><br>during 1970's, CCP took everything away from my family, left them nothing but hunger and horror.<br><br>I hate CCP to the guts, the day CCP is gone will be the happiest day in my life.<br><br>If that's not enough, watch this: FUCK YOU, imac.<br><br><br>[quote]原帖由 <i>imac</i> 于 2008-5-1 02:35 PM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132162&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>

your attitude perfectly explains why Chinese people can not stand without CCP. <img src="./images/smilies/default/smile.gif" smilieid="1" border="0">[/quote]

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<P>I lost 2 uncles and 1 aunty during cutural revolution, my family had own factories before, many people here have&nbsp;similar history. but&nbsp;dare you go back and contribute&nbsp;your skills and improve China a little bit?&nbsp;oh, no, CCP will kill you, won't they? </P>
<P>your life devotion is to crash CCP and bring a&nbsp;destructive move&nbsp;to China, and your happiest moment&nbsp;risks millions of people's life. you selfish&nbsp;coward. and all you do to destroy CCP is to masturbate yourself and think about me. disgusting animal, don't mention&nbsp;the gut again, you don't have it, neither brain. </P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>zuri</I> 于 2008-5-1 03:11 PM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132169&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> among my relatives, lots of them were persecuted by CCP and four of them died.in 1950's CCP took away my maturnal grandfather's clinic and my paternal grandfather's three factories.during 1970's, CCP ... [/quote]</P>

[[i] 本帖最后由 imac 于 2008-5-1 04:56 PM 编辑 [/i]]

<P>呵呵，我姥姥姥爷也是在文革被批斗死的。 我爷爷奶奶关了10年牛棚。 </P>
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<P>我爸因为是黑五类子女连研究生都不让上。 所以我1岁时候抛妻弃子来美国读书。 </P>
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<P>别以为只有你倒霉。 这里支持CCP的没有几个在文革里没有失去过亲人的。 </P>
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<P>至少你家还是资产阶级，属于阶级斗争对象，我家都是和CCP打天下出身的泥腿子。 谁更冤？</P>
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<P>只因为私怨而抛家国而不顾，也只能是小人而已。 </P>
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<P>回头看了看你老帖。 自己从B股赚钱的时候怎么没有恨CCP to the gut?</P>
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<P>只能同富贵不能共患难？</P>
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<P>随便个风吹草动就哭哭啼啼回家手淫的人有个屁的gut，你还把他的话当真了。</P>
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<P>放两句狠话而已，谁不会。"happeist moment of my life"... give me a break... 搞了半天一大老爷们手淫时候老想着我就是为幸福奋斗，太他妈恶心了。</P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>Oskarlre</I> 于 2008-5-1 07:31 PM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132200&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> 呵呵，我姥姥姥爷也是在文革被批斗死的。 我爷爷奶奶关了10年牛棚。 &nbsp; 我爸因为是黑五类子女连研究生都不让上。 所以我1岁时候抛妻弃子来美国读书。 &nbsp; 别以为只有你倒霉。 这里支持CCP的没有几个在文 ... [/quote]</P>

[[i] 本帖最后由 imac 于 2008-5-1 10:08 PM 编辑 [/i]]

是呀，反CNN至少应该放进去吧，说那个no politics in olympics真的好暧昧呀，为啥ＣＮＮ就不能反呢<br><br>[quote]原帖由 <i>Muggle</i> 于 2008-5-1 02:20 PM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132159&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
NY集会那个theme我确实不太理解。。 不牵扯CNN，不牵扯ZD，只一个no politics in olympics的口号，搞得好像我们理亏了一样！<img src="./images/smilies/yangcongtou/numa.gif" smilieid="96" border="0"> [/quote]

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<P>肯定有人质疑过组织者这个方面的，有人找的到相关解释么？</P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>freei</I> 于 2008-5-1 10:06 PM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132218&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> 是呀，反CNN至少应该放进去吧，说那个no politics in olympics真的好暧昧呀，为啥ＣＮＮ就不能反呢 [/quote]</P>

[quote]原帖由 <i>Oskarlre</i> 于 2008-5-1 06:31 PM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132200&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
呵呵，我姥姥姥爷也是在文革被批斗死的。 我爷爷奶奶关了10年牛棚。
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我爸因为是黑五类子女连研究生都不让上。 所以我1岁时候抛妻弃子来美国读书。
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别以为只有你倒霉。 这里支持CCP的没有几个在文 ... [/quote]<br><br>All these events tell the fact that ccp built an unstable political foundation in china.&nbsp; The unbalanced power of ccp caused a lot of sufferings.&nbsp; I can see the situation is improving, but the political risk is way higher than that in mutli-party systems.<br>

Multi-party system is the trend. However, the certain international environment determines that China can't adopt it now, otherwise, China will follow the same way of the small countries in east european and Soviet Union. <br>[quote]原帖由 <i>andrew</i> 于 2008-5-1 10:44 PM 发表 <a href="http://umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132225&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
All these events tell the fact that ccp built an unstable political foundation in china.&nbsp; The unbalanced power of ccp caused a lot of sufferings.&nbsp; I can see the situation is improving, but t ... [/quote]

<P>Please compares the society before and after 1949 in Mainland China. Although cultural revolution is a disaster, it is really nothing compared to what happened in China before 1949. In almost 100 years before 1949, chinese population almost stabilized at 400 million. After 1949, chinese population increased to 1 billion in 30 years.</P>
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<P>CCP did, does, and will do lots of bad and stupid things. But I still think CCP does a great job in the past 60 years.</P>
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<P>[quote]原帖由 <I>andrew</I> 于 2008-5-1 10:44 PM 发表 <A href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132225&amp;ptid=10879" target=_blank><IMG alt="" src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" border=0></A> All these events tell the fact that ccp built an unstable political foundation in china.&nbsp; The unbalanced power of ccp caused a lot of sufferings.&nbsp; I can see the situation is improving, but t ... [/quote]</P>

[quote]原帖由 <i>X</i> 于 2008-5-1 10:06 PM 发表 <a href="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/redirect.php?goto=findpost&amp;pid=132227&amp;ptid=10879" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.umasscssa.org/forum/images/common/back.gif" alt="" border="0"></a>
Please compares the society before and after 1949 in Mainland China. Although cultural revolution is a disaster, it is really nothing compared to what happened in China before 1949. In almost 100 year ... [/quote]<br><br>i totally agree with you.&nbsp; ccp contributed to china alot.&nbsp; my point is that, single-party is not good for both ccp and china.<br>right now the i guess the concensus is that stability is paramount, so lets not do anything big politically and focus on econ<br>but in the long run, this political system is unstable, except ccp could creatively introduce subtantial changes.<br>